Your opinion matters....Sometimes

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JD4 2015.06.30 20:16 #
 
WHRoeder:
angevoyageur: WHRoeder, I learned from you about mql4. But you are a very rude person and a poor human being.
  1. Perhaps when you registered, you missed "Please, be polite communicating in this forum. Any posts which may offend other visitors of the forum are forbidden."
  2. I think it is you that is rude, and a poor human.

I try to treat everyone here as an adult. If they act like an adult, I will try to help.

If they just want a freebe, or start whining when they don't get it, then they need to grow up. They've wasted our time with their post, so they don't deserve niceness. Political Correctness is trying to pick up a turd by the clean end. The more you do it the worse it gets.

My terse remarks have resulted in many posters putting in some effort and learning. And some have posted that they are grateful that they were forced to study.


I disagree with you on this WH.  While you have helped out many people with code suggestions and recommendations for steps to follow, that, to me anyway, was never in question.  And despite your statement, this has nothing to do with being "politically correct", which as far as ideas go is total B.S. anyway.  There is a HUGE difference between being polite and how you come across most of the time.  And I am not talking about you being terse by itself, although sometimes that is seen to be a part of it.  Your responses when someone doesn't understand a comment or an instruction you made of "what part of X isn't clear?" IS rude.  As was posted by knave, not everyone who posts on here has English as their primary language, and while it might be yours WH, even something like "have a nice day", which to you or me might seem very simple, to someone who doesn't deal with the English language every day, has the potential to be misunderstood.
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JD4 2015.06.30 20:26 #
 
gooly:

I am sorry to read this, but in fact there more and more rather stupid posts and questions by newbies which would have been easily solved by themselves by either reading or googeling than bothering this forum.

Especially as some of those newbies seem to be very much offended if they are told that they should do what all of us had to do to be able to give some valuable answers: read, study, experiment,..

Well, some of those newbies are expecting a 'free lunch' here and they start to bitch at the people who tell them, even here, there is no free lunch.

But the main problem of this forum is that there is no HowTo (with e.g. behaviour, how to start learning, ..) for this forum sticking at the very top (in bold letters?) of the main list!

Well in some points I do have a different view than WHRoeder but generally speaking he tells just the truth: either pay of take the time to study and try..

Gooly

Gooly, the problem with the highlighted portion of your post kind of supports my point about some of WH's posts seeming to be rude.  Despite how some people act, this forum is supposed to be here as yet another source of information if they have questions, since we (for the most part, except maybe the admins) are here voluntarily (as in not getting paid for it).  We should not act as if the people with questions should only come here as a matter of last resort after they have already tried everything, and exhausted all other sources of information before even thinking of coming here to ask those "almighty users who know more than all the other little people" (my wording based on some of the attitude I see).  Yes, people should be encouraged to look up the information, and try to learn.  What shouldn't be done is make fun of them or deride them for not looking everywhere else but here first, or when they didn't understand a post, and ask for clarification, treated as if they are mental morons who are too stupid to be bothered with.  Despite the attitude of some on here, not everyone knew everything about a particular subject from the start, and the incorrect usage of noob appears to be just another justification for people who seem to forget that they were once in that same boat at some point.

There is a difference between encouraging someone to go look up information and berating them for having the nerve to ask a question in here.

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WHRoeder 2015.06.30 21:12 #
 
JD4:  "what part of X isn't clear?" IS rude.  As was posted by knave, not everyone who posts on here has English as their primary language,

Asked "what color is the sky?" Answered "Blue." Asked "the sky is blue?" Response "what part of Blue was unclear?"

The person didn't bother to think about the answer, didn't bother to try the answer (look out the window,) didn't try to restate the answer in other words, showing they did think about it ("sky blue" or it's "C'0x00,0x00,0xFF' // Blue?". Just wasted our time asking an already answered question. They were rude first.

What should be the response?

  1. Ignored them, and they'll continue bumping and waste more of our time.
  2. State "Asked and answered."  Just as rude.
  3. Ask "what was unclear," in case English was not their primary language, so I could reexplain. I have never received any such response. I use "isn't clear" because they don't want to even try to understand.
  4. Any other suggestion? "something like "have a nice day", is inappropriate since this is not a social site and changes nothing.


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JD4 2015.06.30 21:22 #
 
WHRoeder:

Asked "what color is the sky?" Answered "Blue." Asked "the sky is blue?" Response "what part of Blue was unclear?"

The person didn't bother to think about the answer, didn't bother to try the answer (look out the window,) didn't try to restate the answer in other words, showing they did think about it ("sky blue" or it's "C'0x00,0x00,0xFF' // Blue?". Just wasted our time asking an already answered question. They were rude first.

What should be the response?

  1. Ignored them, and they'll continue bumping and waste more of our time.
  2. State "Asked and answered."  Just as rude.
  3. Ask "what was unclear," in case English was not their primary language, so I could reexplain. I have never received any such response. I use "isn't clear" because they don't want to even try to understand.
  4. Any other suggestion? "something like "have a nice day", is inappropriate since this is not a social site and changes nothing.


The problem is that you do that to everyone, and presume that everyone who has the nerve to ask for clarification when they didn't understand something must be stupid, or are just here to waste your time.  Just because you are making perfect sense to something you fully understand doesn't mean that everyone else should just automatically have the same knowledge of the topic as you do, and be able to see immediately what you are talking about.  If an engineer with multiple degrees goes into a high school class and starts talking, in words he or she uses (and understands) every day, while some people in the class might grasp what he or she is talking about, some might not, and would be expected to ask questions.  Your response, in this example, would be something like "why don't you get this?  I explained it very clearly when I said it." based on what I see of your responses in here sometimes.  Add to that, if this happened in a non-English speaking country, the class was made up of people who are also taking a class to understand (speak and write) English, and the engineer only spoke in English, you might start to get the picture.  While this is a predominantly English forum, native English speakers are not the only ones making use of it.  Also, not everyone who comes on here is automatically a great programmer who can write awesome programs from the start of their coding experience.

I am sure there are some people who are like how you say, and since you have been on the board longer than I have, you have dealt with more of them than I have seen.  But to presume that of everyone who asks a question, and then to respond the way you do when they ask for clarification because THEY don't understand is rude and in some cases, uncalled for.  Your response should be to presume that the person, for the most part, if they ask for clarification, means that they don't understand your post (either part or all) and they want clarification.

I used the have a nice day as a general example, not necessarily one to be taken literally.

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4x_Gypsy 2015.07.01 02:36 #
 
angevoyageur:

Here is my message to Metaquotes administrator, after I explained I will not continue to be moderator on this forum :

WHRoeder, I learned from you about mql4. But you are a very rude person and a poor human being.

This is my last post.

I for one look forward to your responses and have learned a lot from them, but I understand if you no longer wish to take part in this forum, there are times when I come here and leave discouraged with all this. Should you ever wish to rethink this decision I will welcome you back with gladness and relief.

WHRoeder..

Judging by the coding samples you have provided it is very clear you are very talented, but your social skills just suck to say the least. You are rude, heavy handed, have a deep lack of tolerance and more often than not just plain mean. It is a shame a person with your talent and knowledge of code can not have a shred of manners when it comes to people who are trying to learn here. I have learned from you regardless but I still don't agree with your online presence here.

MetaQuotes...

You people have neglected this forum in every imaginable way. There is absolutely no place to learn even the basics of coding and it the fault lies with all you at MetaQuotes. People (myself included) have been forced to endure unnecessarily unreadable documentation in our desire to learn. You people have forced update after update down our collective throats in a attempt to force us to switch from MQL4 to MQL5. I prefer MQL4 to MQL5 and have created more than a 100 EA's,scripts and indicators that work just fine for me without the use of any OOP code at all. Some of them are actually finally profitable and provide me with a decent little income, again without any type of OOP code at all.


Just my 2 cent

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313
JD4 2015.07.01 03:22 #
 
4x_Gypsy:

MetaQuotes...

You people have neglected this forum in every imaginable way. There is absolutely no place to learn even the basics of coding and it the fault lies with all you at MetaQuotes. People (myself included) have been forced to endure unnecessarily unreadable documentation in our desire to learn. You people have forced update after update down our collective throats in a attempt to force us to switch from MQL4 to MQL5. I prefer MQL4 to MQL5 and have created more than a 100 EA's,scripts and indicators that work just fine for me without the use of any OOP code at all. Some of them are actually finally profitable and provide me with a decent little income, again without any type of OOP code at all.


Just my 2 cent

The thing is that a lot of people don't realize is you can still code in what is considered an OOP language in the old style way.  It just gets a lot harder to do.  I agree with you on this one Gypsy.  Your comment about MQL4 v. MQL5 reminds me of so many things happening.  If something is working and people like it, something must be broken and changed immediately to something less easy to use or else it takes about 10 times more effort to be able to do the same thing you could before.

They do have a codebase available for use on MQL5.com, and it does have an MT4 section, but there is only 20 entries on there on the main page.  I am glad that they only show 20 MT5 things there too.  It is at least a token offering to show they are as interested in one as they are the other, although I am sure that isn't the case.

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