Why some great coders and trading system developers are ignoring Metatrader 5? - page 2

I was learning mql4 before, and started to learn mql5.

By the way, do you know why some great coders are great and well-known?
Because of the public developments - some of them were unknown before started but they were making public developments on the forums for MT4 (indicators, EAs), and many people know them because of that. After that - they created created their own forums and commercial services being already well-known popular coders (for MT4). It was before my very eyes. And there are some legendary names for now.

So, I want to say that there are same possibility for MT5.
And it is really time for now to be in with it.

Just my opinion.

 

Great because they can analyse a problem correctly and design a solution before they even start thinking about code . . . .   well known because they have lots of followers on twitter and FB  ;-)

I'll stick with what I know for now and until MT5 is a better or only option for me.

Wow. That made me smile. Of all the possible benefits of MT5, those are fairly much the last which spring to mind!

1) - stop loss/take profit can be moved directly on the chart

This can be done in MT4. For example, https://www.mql5.com/en/code/10633 among many others.

2) - we can send any screenshot with message to many social networks accounts directly from Metatrader (which I am particular interesting in).

This can be done in MT4. For example, https://www.mql5.com/en/code/10122, if you are so inclined.

3) - we can switch many broker's accounts diorectly from one metatrader installation

A limited necessity, which installing an extra installation of MT4 will easily fix.

4) - there is forex calendar with vertical lines on the chart (it need to be improved but ... where are the public coders? why they are not creating news indicators and NewsTrader EAs for that?)

Presumably you are referring to the "Economic Calendar"? https://www.metatrader5.com/en/trading-platform/fundamental-analysis. As I understand it, this only works if the broker has enabled it. It also currently appears to rely entirely on the service only providing chart objects. This means that chart objects have to be interrogated in various ways in order to make use of the information, which is very cumbersome. There appear to be no dedicated functions for working with the" Economic Calendar" properly, yet.  Why would a skilled coder not just rely upon existing third party news providers, for which MT4 code already exists? For example, https://www.mql5.com/en/articles/1502. This also allows multiple sources to be collected, rather than relying upon just one.

5) - there are a lot of service to make money while trading (and as I understand - it will be more abnd more services). I mean: if somepone buys something for 100 dollars for example so the vendor will get exact this 100 dollars (no any commission is taken).

Services such as the "Market Place" for selling programs apparently DO require a commission of 20% on the amount the vendor receives. https://www.mql5.com/en/market/terms/developer, section v.3.

The "Signals Service" is also available for MT4. https://www.mql5.com/en/signals/mt4.

You really answered your own question:

A) Why would a coder move to MT5 when they can do 98% of what they want with MT4, which they already know well and feel comfortable with, especially when the support and the community for MT5 is less advanced?

B) The incentive to provide free code in the codebase and help with strategies is massively reduced for MT5 since there is an easily available code "Market Place" to sell that code and "Signals Service" to sell those EA ideas instead.

The code for MT5 also seems to be a major sticking point. The semantics of MT5 seem to be about 80% the same as MT4, whereas the syntax seems about only 60% similar. There is a scattered layout to the Documentation section, without any Book to explain things properly. As often seems to be the case with the Documentation, it only makes sense if you ALREADY understand it! Trying to piece things together from just the Documentation is difficult enough as it is, but it is made more difficult by the way that essential information is spread over many pages without many obvious links between them, and no Book to string things together. Understanding the Documents section is actually more difficult than understanding the code, which only makes sense once you figure out how to apply structures to trade requests and time information, adapt to the new way of calling time series data, and become comfortable with the new "events" layout. Also, the object orientated nature adds greater complexity (although it can be largely avoided, actually). Until there is an easier manual for MT5 I think it will have limited participation and community support. I should think that most people who have tried to learn MT5 speculatively have given up at some point, unless they really needed to learn it. Perhaps MetaQuotes would benefit by spending less time on promoting MT5 and adding extra utility, and more time on providing a better manual.

Added to this are the two further significant disadvantages to MT5, which are the way it handles trades (by amalgamating all trades on a symbol into one net trade, which makes handling EAs which use multiple trades on a symbol very annoying) and the limited availability from brokers.

However, having said that, in fairness I think it is worth mentioning that there are some serious benefits of switching to MT5.

1) A trade function designed to improve the performance of scalping strategies by allowing the program to continue while waiting for server responses. https://www.mql5.com/en/docs/trading/ordersendasync.

2) Much increased execution speed, delivered by such things as less intensive use of price data per code run through, as well as lazy processing of conditionals. This not only speeds up backtesting, but also live code - attractive to scalpers.

3) Use of "Events" https://www.mql5.com/en/docs/basis/function/events, such as the "OnTrade" event which makes keeping track of trades significantly easier than with MT4. (Easier as long as you are only opening one trade at a time per symbol).

4) Use of multi-core processing (within one computer), ability to add "local agents" (ie. other computers on your local network) as well as pay-per-use cloud agents significantly speeds up optimizations (but not applicable to single backtests!).

5) A major UK broker (remaining nameless) has recently started offering MT5 with low variable spreads and no commission for the near future (comparable to Pro rates) for the opening cost and requirements of a Micro account. Again, attractive to scalpers.

If a coder/trader has time to decode the cryptic documentation, and can find a decent broker, and doesn't mind amalgamating all trades on one symbol into a single position, then it might be worth migrating to MT5 - but I can only really see MT5 as being attractive to people who want to scalp, optimize the sense out of a strategy, compete in the ATC, or otherwise sell their code or signals more easily - which severely limits the field!

FB and twitter?
Not.
Because of public developments they made.

Just imagine (for example only): some unknown coder came to some MT4 forum (any forex forum) and started to help to the people. One year ... two years ... he started many threads and coded/uploaded everything what the people want/like. After that, being well-known - he created their own forums or commercial service websites. And for now - everybody knows their names. Example - author of Goldwarrior EA, next example - author of ZUP, next example - author of Daily Data indicator, next example - author of StepMAs indicators, next example - author of 10points EA ... more and more .... All of them started with public development being unknown many years ago. Legendary people.

So, I am talking about possibility - there are a lot of possibilities for MT5 for now.

As to MT5 is better ...
Just read this article:

MetaTrader 5 - More Than You Can Imagine!

and my 2 threads in mql5.com forum here
PriceChannel Parabolic system
and here:
Market Condition Evaluation based on standard indicators in Metatrader 5

I am really thinking that there is the time for now to start with MT5 on the same way as we started with MT4 long time ago when MT3 was dead for example.

By the way - I started to program for mql3 too long time ago ... did not finish yet :)

Hi clerin6,

What you are talking comparing MT4 and MT5 - it is the other story. What you made examples about CodeBase in MT4 - it is the people made. I mean - those scripts/indicators etc were developed by coders/programmers. Great coders became to be great guys developed such the tools for MT4 (some of those tools were uploaded to MT4 CodeBase). Some those coders are well-known for now because of that, and they created their forums and their own business etc. And I am not sure that they will want to start from the beginning as they are already famous guys because of MT4 having their forums or businesses etc. 

But I am talking about possibilities for the coders in case of MT5. Because some features are included inside platform for MT5.

Of course, if the coder started with MT4 and after that - created his own forum or business being well-known so he will not want to be moved to MT5. What for? :)
But the other guys?

Well ...just look - in which way the famous coders became to be famous ... author of Goldwarrior EA for example: legendary coder ... he created his forum because he started his public development for this EA (for MT3 and for MT4 later) many years ago ... I remember this story - fully unknown guy started to develop some EA ... it was in 2005... but he is famous legendary man for now - he did many EAs and he is having his own forum for now.
There are many examples.

I am talking about possibilities in MT5.

By the way - I personally need 2 EAs and some indicators to be developed for my public mql5.com forum thread ...

Why do you assume that good ccders want to make commercial un-profitable EAs ?

I can't speak for anyone else,  and I don't consider myself to be a "great" coder,  but I come here to learn and help others,  in helping others I learn.  So I'm not here for fame or notoriety just to offer help and to have a place to ask questions when I need to. 

I am talking about the coders who made their business/forums/commercial something coding for MT4. And I know how they did to become a sucessful with it.
Yes, some of them will never come to MT4 ... 

But why we need to rely on some great coders?
If they want to stay with MT4 forever so let them do ...
There are some other/next generations anyway. 

Sergey,

Personally, I do not ignore any possibilities provided by MT5. I have read the article: MetaTrader5 - More Than You Can imagine! I have run MT5 MetaTrader, MT5 MetaEditor, and my favorite ;) the "lightning fast" strategy tester which shows spectacular performance, oh-and ;) don't forget how the MT5 tester is able to run multi-currency strategies! Are you serious? :) Like I said, I do not ignore any possibilities provided by MT5. It is the future. I don't care if anyone else writes different but ;) What better MQL education can I get to establish an MQL coding foundation than the currently most prominent MQL language used, MQL4. I am very excited to one day greet the day when I have covered all MQL4 coding fundamentals so I can simply breeze through coding in MQL5! The future is coming whether I wish for it or not. :) I simply wish to be prepared first so the transition is not so vast. BTW, I enjoyed reading this thread.

Thank you.

Hi clerin6,

 Great post you made.

I tried many scripts for MT4 (incl commercial ones): I placed some scripts to some forum but it stopped working. The other tool was free but became commercial after many people were interesting in it. So, I do not like to instal something special for that relying on some developer (such as "third party developers").

It is more comfortable for me to have this feature to be already in Metatrader 5.

Yes, I like it in MT5. I have accounts with many social networks which I am using in active way.

As to MT4 ... I tried some similar tool for twitter but it became commercial ... and no any tool for FB, Linkedin etc. So, I used some special services such as posterous etc. If someone creates such the features for MT4 so those features will be commercial anyway. Created by someone. :)

So, I like that it is already integrated in MT5.
Anyway you can understand it as my personal sorry.

Yes, that is good feature. I traded manually for 4 brokers yesterday in simultanious way using just one Metatrader 5 instance.
And it is comfortable.
Of course, it may be improved because I had to switch between accounts all the time. And I can not use EAs in such a way.

Metatrader 4? As I remember - I had 5 dedicated servers connecting to them using RDC from my PC ... :)
And it was not easy to control them aall the time. 

If Metatrader 5 can be improved to use EAs in 'multiply accounts way' so it will be good next improvement.

I traded forex news events for many years using NewsTrader EA. I traded high impacted news events only of the calendar I was making for some forum. So, I personally decided - which news events will be high impacted, and which one - not (because I was making the calendar I traded). For now - I am not with it, and I do not want to rely on someone who will decide which some event is high impacted oand which one is not. It will make the losses for me sorry.

This calendat in MT5 is ok. But it may be good to see some next development, not vertical lines only. Because I really want to continue my news trading for what I decide to be high imtacted or not.

I did not know about commission of 20% sorry.
Yes, it exists in MT4 too.

But ... for example ... do you know famous 10points EA, or Fozzy EA for MT4?
If I want to convert those EAs to MT5 so what can I do?
- I can pay money using Job service ... such as 500 or more credits for every new version :)
- or ask great coders to help me 
"please ... please ...help" ...
they will reply: "common! common! no free lunch here" :)
  
Yes, some of great coders are coding for MT5 and TradeStation but just in case only.
Because they are already great guys and they do not care about anything anymore.

I like public development on the forums with many people involved - it is the only way to receive what I want.
Because many famous EAs for MT4 were developed in this way: by public development.
If there will be more services for Metatrader (and especially for MT5) so it will be good: many people will be involved with many additional possibilities.

Yes, placing free code in CodeBase may be more usefull in case of good people's interest in it. And interest may be increased by public development only.
Otherwise people may comment something as "yes, this is good tool. But I do not need it for now. Why you did not create it 4 months ago?" :)

Market Place? Are you really believe that some unknown coder can sell his EA for good money telling to the people that "EA is really great!" providing backtesting results for example?
And everybody will believe in him and buy for good money?

I wanted to say that we need CodeBase anyway.
But it may be good to integrate CodeBase with public development (same with Market Place). 

Metatrader 5 is the future anyway.
And it is really bad that some great coders are ignoring this situation.

New generation will come and they will create good competition for any great coder for MT5.
Public developments on the forums will be started/continued for MT5 indicators and EAs anyway
Irrespective off.  

WhooDoo22,

I was busy replying to clerin6 (he made good comment).

I do not like silence in public development of indicators/EAs for Metatrader 5.
I am talking about development publicly on the forums.

Do you remember how MT4 was started? It was great public developments everywhere on many forex forums.
It was really action.
And now - nothing ...

And MT4 - no 'action' as well ...
Great coders ... they achieved the purpose of their life and gone from public development or quit forex?
or forex was quitted by life?